In 1978, I was in a car accident in Germany and fractured two vertebrae (L3 and L5). My second night in a German hospital, flat on my back, I suddenly started shaking uncontrollable, then I started throwing up.
I was still a relatively new Christian then, having asked the Lord into my life just two years before. As the nurses placed some kind of heat device over my bed to try and stop the shaking, I began to pray, "Lord, I don't know what's going on, whether this is permanent or not, but I just hand it over to you." I was very glad I had a personal relationship with Him at that moment.
Eventually that evening, the shaking subsided, and after a couple of weeks, I was healthy enough to be transferred to a U.S. Army hospital. Because the x-rays taken at the German hospital somehow never made it to the Army hospital, they decided to take new x-rays.
Two radiologists looked at the x-rays; the first one said there was no trace of any fracture, and the second one said that if you look very carefully at one of the vertebrae, you could see where the fracture was.
It wasn't until years later that I considered the possibility that I might have been miraculously healed that night (although I'll never know this side of heaven whether it was just a misdiagnosis by the German doctors). But even if my recovery wasn't a miracle, the peace I felt after turning it over to the Lord was.
That's a nice story CT, but I'm not sure what it is supposed to prove.
A few years ago I was shot in the stomach by a carjacker. As I was being wheeled into the operating room the doctor told me he didn't know if I would live or not. I still never felt the need for a god and didn't even consider praying.
We all have stories like that, and they don't prove anything.
In 1967, a girl by the name of Joni Eareckson dove off a pier into some shallow water, and like me, fractured some vertebrae. But unlike me, she ended up a quadraplegic. Through that tragedy, she developed a personal relationship with God that makes my own pale in comparison. Here's a link to some quotes from this remarkable woman.
I think that the reason so many atheists are also politically liberal is twofold:
1) They consider utopia to be a place where everyone is taken care of, where there are no struggles for anyone; and
2) Not being able to find that kind of total care in God, they deny His existence and turn to the government to solve everyone's problems.
As I discussed in our exchange about the Epicuruean dilemma, God will not capriciously suspend his own laws of physics in order that no one will suffer. But in the midst of that suffering, He offers a peace that passes all understanding and works through His people to that end.
I'll close with another quote from Joni Eareckson Tada:
"Sometimes God allows what he hates to accomplish what he loves."
Look, if you need the god crutch then use it. I don't mind. I don't really get offended until you try to convince others that they also need that crutch. If it made you (and Miss Eareckson) feel better to believe that, then I'm happy for you. But there are millions of us in this country that don't need that invisible man in the sky to make us feel better. And our belief (or rather non-belief) is just as valid as yours.
Look, if you need the government crutch then use it. I don't mind. I don't really get offended until you try to convince others that they also need that crutch.
That's the stuff that $14 trillion debt is made of.
We all need the government crutch , as you call it. Are you an anarchist now? Would you refuse to let government fireman put out your home if it was on fire? Would you refuse to let government police protect your family? Would you refuse to let government schools educate your children? Would you refuse to let a government army protect our country if another country attacks?
You're just being silly now, CT. Religion and government are not comparable. One is necessary and the other is not.
There you go again, Ted. Dragging out firemen, policemen, teachers and soldiers to justify our overly bureaucratic, duplicative and bloated government.
Nobody wants to do without essential services. But when you make government your god, attempting to create a heaven on earth (or workers' paradise - take your pick), you're doing so with everyone's hard earned tax dollars (or borrowed money we can ill afford).
At least when I excercise my "religion," I don't expect anyone to subsidize it against their will.
Government is not my god, and I resent the implication. I do believe government is necessary though, and there are many things that government can do better than private business can.
And we would not be in such deficit trouble if we were actually receiving "hard earned tax dollars" from everyone. The fact is that many of the rich and the corporations skate by without paying their fair share, and you Republicans would like to give them even more.
And as far as I'm concerned, the tax-free status of religion does amount to a "subsidy" (and it is against my will).
ANONYMOUS COMMENTS WILL NOT BE PUBLISHED. And neither will racist,homophobic, or misogynistic comments. I do not mind if you disagree, but make your case in a decent manner.
In 1978, I was in a car accident in Germany and fractured two vertebrae (L3 and L5). My second night in a German hospital, flat on my back, I suddenly started shaking uncontrollable, then I started throwing up.
ReplyDeleteI was still a relatively new Christian then, having asked the Lord into my life just two years before. As the nurses placed some kind of heat device over my bed to try and stop the shaking, I began to pray, "Lord, I don't know what's going on, whether this is permanent or not, but I just hand it over to you." I was very glad I had a personal relationship with Him at that moment.
(cont'd)
Eventually that evening, the shaking subsided, and after a couple of weeks, I was healthy enough to be transferred to a U.S. Army hospital. Because the x-rays taken at the German hospital somehow never made it to the Army hospital, they decided to take new x-rays.
ReplyDeleteTwo radiologists looked at the x-rays; the first one said there was no trace of any fracture, and the second one said that if you look very carefully at one of the vertebrae, you could see where the fracture was.
It wasn't until years later that I considered the possibility that I might have been miraculously healed that night (although I'll never know this side of heaven whether it was just a misdiagnosis by the German doctors). But even if my recovery wasn't a miracle, the peace I felt after turning it over to the Lord was.
(cont'd)
That's a nice story CT, but I'm not sure what it is supposed to prove.
ReplyDeleteA few years ago I was shot in the stomach by a carjacker. As I was being wheeled into the operating room the doctor told me he didn't know if I would live or not. I still never felt the need for a god and didn't even consider praying.
We all have stories like that, and they don't prove anything.
I'm not done yet. Hear me out.
ReplyDeleteIn 1967, a girl by the name of Joni Eareckson dove off a pier into some shallow water, and like me, fractured some vertebrae. But unlike me, she ended up a quadraplegic. Through that tragedy, she developed a personal relationship with God that makes my own pale in comparison. Here's a link to some quotes from this remarkable woman.
(cont'd)
I think that the reason so many atheists are also politically liberal is twofold:
ReplyDelete1) They consider utopia to be a place where everyone is taken care of, where there are no struggles for anyone; and
2) Not being able to find that kind of total care in God, they deny His existence and turn to the government to solve everyone's problems.
As I discussed in our exchange about the Epicuruean dilemma, God will not capriciously suspend his own laws of physics in order that no one will suffer. But in the midst of that suffering, He offers a peace that passes all understanding and works through His people to that end.
I'll close with another quote from Joni Eareckson Tada:
"Sometimes God allows what he hates to accomplish what he loves."
Look, if you need the god crutch then use it. I don't mind. I don't really get offended until you try to convince others that they also need that crutch. If it made you (and Miss Eareckson) feel better to believe that, then I'm happy for you. But there are millions of us in this country that don't need that invisible man in the sky to make us feel better. And our belief (or rather non-belief) is just as valid as yours.
ReplyDeleteLook, if you need the government crutch then use it. I don't mind. I don't really get offended until you try to convince others that they also need that crutch.
ReplyDeleteThat's the stuff that $14 trillion debt is made of.
We all need the government crutch , as you call it. Are you an anarchist now? Would you refuse to let government fireman put out your home if it was on fire? Would you refuse to let government police protect your family? Would you refuse to let government schools educate your children? Would you refuse to let a government army protect our country if another country attacks?
ReplyDeleteYou're just being silly now, CT. Religion and government are not comparable. One is necessary and the other is not.
There you go again, Ted. Dragging out firemen, policemen, teachers and soldiers to justify our overly bureaucratic, duplicative and bloated government.
ReplyDeleteNobody wants to do without essential services. But when you make government your god, attempting to create a heaven on earth (or workers' paradise - take your pick), you're doing so with everyone's hard earned tax dollars (or borrowed money we can ill afford).
At least when I excercise my "religion," I don't expect anyone to subsidize it against their will.
Government is not my god, and I resent the implication. I do believe government is necessary though, and there are many things that government can do better than private business can.
ReplyDeleteAnd we would not be in such deficit trouble if we were actually receiving "hard earned tax dollars" from everyone. The fact is that many of the rich and the corporations skate by without paying their fair share, and you Republicans would like to give them even more.
And as far as I'm concerned, the tax-free status of religion does amount to a "subsidy" (and it is against my will).
As the woman looked up to the sky she could a faint voice,'Our relationship is just a little on the S&M side.'
ReplyDelete