No they wouldn't because Jesus never preached any sort of political creed, in fact, simply telling his followers to 'render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's' and in the meantime to live their *personal* lives according to certain *personal* moral precepts even if that brought down hardships upon them because thereby they would enter heaven after death. Thus, you are free to be a socialist Christian or a conservative Christian, it's what you do personally that counts. And I would remind you that a huge influence on the evolution of socialism was Protestant Christianity. I would go further and remind you that most of the good things about the American body-politic stem from fundamentally Christian ethics.
"The rise of Non-Conformist religions, in particular Methodism, played a large role in the development of trade unions and of British socialism. The influence of the radical chapels was strongly felt among some industrial workers, especially miners and those in the north of England and Wales.
The first group calling itself Christian Socialists formed in 1848 under the leadership of Frederick Denison Maurice. Its membership mainly consisted of Chartists (see below). The group became dormant after only six years, but there was a considerable revival of Christian socialism in the 1880s, and a number of groups sprang up. Ultimately, Christian socialists dominated the leadership of the Independent Labour Party, including James Keir Hardie."
History of socialism: E-. Must do better, McLaughlin, or you will have to stay behind after school.
I agree that socialism was helped by some christians. I disagree that conservatism sprang from it -- at least the modern version of it (that is greedy and selfish and bigoted).
I think there is some biblical evidence that Jesus was a socialist and would have embraced the title.
Mark 10:21-25 21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Matthew 25:31-46 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
James 2:1-7 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
this may not set well with some folks, but it is an interesting read. you'll have to go to the article to get a proper understanding of what bertell ollman had to say.
Crikey, it looks as though we might be on the verge of agreement, so perhaps what I wrote wasn't complete "bullshit" - just for a change!
I think, Gra'ma, you need to take note that Jesus's injunctions are aimed at individual people. He is saying, you, the individual 'you', should behave in this manner and not in that, not for the chance of reward on this earth but for the chance of salvation after death, and to avoid eternity in hell. Nowhere does He suggest how a government should operate, his words are always to individual people. For example, he doesn't suggest that government should take from the rich and give to the poor.
This is fortunate because, of course, had He done so He would simply have proved beyond doubt that though He was a good and brave man He was also a monumentally dumb man when it comes to economics. If indeed He was the Son of God (which I doubt!) then the fact that he never gave such advice to governments is exceedingly important.
I believe He was talking about the "collective" YOU. He meant everyone, including those of YOU running the government, making laws, etc. If YOU conservatives want "salvation" YOU might want to re-read the Bible and actually start practicing what He preached. Study carefully all those lovely "Jesus" quotes that YOU rely on whenever YOU want to make a political or economic pronouncement that heavily relies on His teachings and which YOU distort in order to make YOUr points.
ANONYMOUS COMMENTS WILL NOT BE PUBLISHED. And neither will racist,homophobic, or misogynistic comments. I do not mind if you disagree, but make your case in a decent manner.
Ain't that the truth. And the other republican god, Reagan, would now be a democrat again.
ReplyDeleteNo they wouldn't because Jesus never preached any sort of political creed, in fact, simply telling his followers to 'render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's' and in the meantime to live their *personal* lives according to certain *personal* moral precepts even if that brought down hardships upon them because thereby they would enter heaven after death. Thus, you are free to be a socialist Christian or a conservative Christian, it's what you do personally that counts. And I would remind you that a huge influence on the evolution of socialism was Protestant Christianity. I would go further and remind you that most of the good things about the American body-politic stem from fundamentally Christian ethics.
ReplyDelete"The rise of Non-Conformist religions, in particular Methodism, played a large role in the development of trade unions and of British socialism. The influence of the radical chapels was strongly felt among some industrial workers, especially miners and those in the north of England and Wales.
ReplyDeleteThe first group calling itself Christian Socialists formed in 1848 under the leadership of Frederick Denison Maurice. Its membership mainly consisted of Chartists (see below). The group became dormant after only six years, but there was a considerable revival of Christian socialism in the 1880s, and a number of groups sprang up. Ultimately, Christian socialists dominated the leadership of the Independent Labour Party, including James Keir Hardie."
History of socialism: E-. Must do better, McLaughlin, or you will have to stay behind after school.
I agree that socialism was helped by some christians. I disagree that conservatism sprang from it -- at least the modern version of it (that is greedy and selfish and bigoted).
DeleteI think there is some biblical evidence that Jesus was a socialist and would have embraced the title.
ReplyDeleteMark 10:21-25 21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Matthew 25:31-46 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
James 2:1-7 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
this may not set well with some folks, but it is an interesting read. you'll have to go to the article to get a proper understanding of what bertell ollman had to say.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nyu.edu/projects/ollman/docs/practical_christianity.php
Socialism is Practical Christianity
(Written for the People's National Party—P. N. P.-of Jamaica, 1965)
By Bertell Ollman
SOCIALISM IS PRACTICAL CHRISTIANITY
SOCIALISM MEANS BROTHERHOOD
SOCIALISM MEANS EQUALITY
SOCIALISM MEANS JUSTICE
SOCIALISM MEANS BEING FOR POOR PEOPLE AND AGAINST THEIR OPPRESSORS
SOCIALISM MEANS OPPOSITION TO THE GREEDY RICH
SOCIALISM MEANS CHRISTIAN CONCERN FOR SOCIAL PROBLEMS
SOCIALISM MEANS THE SOLUTION
SOCIALISM MEANS AN END TO CAPITALIST INJUSTICE
SOCIALISM MEANS LIVING THE GOLDEN RULE
SOCIALISM MEANS THE PEOPLE OWN THEIR COUNTRY
SOCIALISM DOES NOT MEAN WHAT ITS ENEMIES SAY IT DOES
SOCIALISM IS COMING—WITH YOUR HELP
SOCIALISM IS PRACTICAL CHRISTIANITY
Crikey, it looks as though we might be on the verge of agreement, so perhaps what I wrote wasn't complete "bullshit" - just for a change!
ReplyDeleteI think, Gra'ma, you need to take note that Jesus's injunctions are aimed at individual people. He is saying, you, the individual 'you', should behave in this manner and not in that, not for the chance of reward on this earth but for the chance of salvation after death, and to avoid eternity in hell. Nowhere does He suggest how a government should operate, his words are always to individual people. For example, he doesn't suggest that government should take from the rich and give to the poor.
This is fortunate because, of course, had He done so He would simply have proved beyond doubt that though He was a good and brave man He was also a monumentally dumb man when it comes to economics. If indeed He was the Son of God (which I doubt!) then the fact that he never gave such advice to governments is exceedingly important.
I believe He was talking about the "collective" YOU. He meant everyone, including those of YOU running the government, making laws, etc. If YOU conservatives want "salvation" YOU might want to re-read the Bible and actually start practicing what He preached. Study carefully all those lovely "Jesus" quotes that YOU rely on whenever YOU want to make a political or economic pronouncement that heavily relies on His teachings and which YOU distort in order to make YOUr points.
Delete