You know, Ted, for the longest time I couldn't understand why you're so driven to stick it to religion in general and Christianity in particular - until I got a new insight from the book Mere Christianity by atheist turned Christian apologist, C.S. Lewis:
"If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake. If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all these religions, even the queerest ones [in the 1940's sense of the word], contain at least some hint of the truth."
"When I was an atheist I had to try to persuade myself that most of the human race have always been wrong about the question that mattered to them most; when I became a Christian I was able to take a more liberal view."
After reading that quote, whenever I see you belittling religion, I accept it for what it is: exercising your fundamental faith in the notion that there is absolutely no God whatsoever.
I know there are a lot of intolerant Christians, but that's their own personal problem, not the problem with Christianity as I understand it. But it seems to me that atheism requires a lot more intolerance than Christianity does. If that weren't true, there would be a lot more anti-atheism websites than there are anti-religion sites.
Yeah, Ted, it's so intolerant of you to say that nobody is going to be tortured for eternity.
Some people are nonbelievers because *gasp* they began to educate themselves on history and science. And many/most nonbelievers are former believers. But I know nothing will detract some people from thinking that they are oh so persecuted for their faith. Count it all joy. So keep on keepin' on, I guess.
Care to actually address the bible verses in the comic?
Fair enough. I know you take your atheism very seriously (probably as seriously as I take my Christianity), and just as I wouldn't post links to Atheist Comics or The Good Atheist, I wouldn't expect you to link to sites that similarly mock atheism.
You should still have my personal email address; send them to me directly, and I promise I won't post them anywhere else. If I don't hear from you in the next few days, I'll assume you can't find my address and I'll send you an email.
Care to actually address the bible verses in the comic?
I'd be glad to. Unlike the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke), John is not strictly chronological. A good example of this is the fact that in John, Jesus drives the money changers out of the temple in Chapter 2. Chronologically, this doesn't occur until shortly before the cruxifiction, as recounted in the synoptic gospels. To say that something occured "a little while later" just because it's reported two chapters later in the gospel of John is not a legitimate exegesis of the text.
Cherry picking bible verses to make them say what you want can be a lot of fun. My favorite example is the juxtaposition of the verses "Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5) with the verse "Go and do likewise" (Luke 10:37). Christians often do this, not so much as a form of amusement, but to justify all sorts of evil and self-serving actions. And nonbelievers often do it in an attempt to discredit the entire Bible, and ultimately, God.
But this kind of trivialization of the Bible, no matter what the motivation, does it a disservice. It's like what the main character of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's play Faust says of his servant Wagner: digging for gold and rejoicing when he finds earthworms.
I've spent the better part of my adult life searching the scriptures - not to make light of it, pick it apart or justify my own sins (which are many), but to be lifted up, comforted, and drawn closer to God.
That is funny about Judas. Also funny how it's not even clear how he died. The circumstances surrounding Jesus' 'resurrection' are even less clear.
If a poorly compiled ancient text makes you feel "closer" to your diety in the year 2009, that's your business. As long as you don't use your interpretations of it to support legal discrimination of other Americans, you can have a ball with it in your own life. I really don't care. Again, I am a former Christian, I know the apologetics and suffice it to say that I am no longer impressed by it.
ANONYMOUS COMMENTS WILL NOT BE PUBLISHED. And neither will racist,homophobic, or misogynistic comments. I do not mind if you disagree, but make your case in a decent manner.
Found at the humorous blog Atheist Comics.
You know, Ted, for the longest time I couldn't understand why you're so driven to stick it to religion in general and Christianity in particular - until I got a new insight from the book Mere Christianity by atheist turned Christian apologist, C.S. Lewis:
ReplyDelete"If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake. If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all these religions, even the queerest ones [in the 1940's sense of the word], contain at least some hint of the truth."
"When I was an atheist I had to try to persuade myself that most of the human race have always been wrong about the question that mattered to them most; when I became a Christian I was able to take a more liberal view."
After reading that quote, whenever I see you belittling religion, I accept it for what it is: exercising your fundamental faith in the notion that there is absolutely no God whatsoever.
I know there are a lot of intolerant Christians, but that's their own personal problem, not the problem with Christianity as I understand it. But it seems to me that atheism requires a lot more intolerance than Christianity does. If that weren't true, there would be a lot more anti-atheism websites than there are anti-religion sites.
There are planty of anti-atheism sites, but that doesn't make god any more real.
ReplyDeleteSorry about misspelling "plenty". Guess I need to start using my spell-check.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Ted, it's so intolerant of you to say that nobody is going to be tortured for eternity.
ReplyDeleteSome people are nonbelievers because *gasp* they began to educate themselves on history and science. And many/most nonbelievers are former believers. But I know nothing will detract some people from thinking that they are oh so persecuted for their faith. Count it all joy. So keep on keepin' on, I guess.
Care to actually address the bible verses in the comic?
"There are planty of anti-atheism sites, but that doesn't make god any more real."
ReplyDeleteCould you post links to a few? Not that I would want to regularly visit them. I'm just curious as to what they would say.
Thanks for the support Andrea.
ReplyDeleteNo CT, I will not post those kind of links.
ReplyDeleteFair enough. I know you take your atheism very seriously (probably as seriously as I take my Christianity), and just as I wouldn't post links to Atheist Comics or The Good Atheist, I wouldn't expect you to link to sites that similarly mock atheism.
ReplyDeleteYou should still have my personal email address; send them to me directly, and I promise I won't post them anywhere else. If I don't hear from you in the next few days, I'll assume you can't find my address and I'll send you an email.
Care to actually address the bible verses in the comic?
ReplyDeleteI'd be glad to. Unlike the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke), John is not strictly chronological. A good example of this is the fact that in John, Jesus drives the money changers out of the temple in Chapter 2. Chronologically, this doesn't occur until shortly before the cruxifiction, as recounted in the synoptic gospels. To say that something occured "a little while later" just because it's reported two chapters later in the gospel of John is not a legitimate exegesis of the text.
Cherry picking bible verses to make them say what you want can be a lot of fun. My favorite example is the juxtaposition of the verses "Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5) with the verse "Go and do likewise" (Luke 10:37). Christians often do this, not so much as a form of amusement, but to justify all sorts of evil and self-serving actions. And nonbelievers often do it in an attempt to discredit the entire Bible, and ultimately, God.
But this kind of trivialization of the Bible, no matter what the motivation, does it a disservice. It's like what the main character of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's play Faust says of his servant Wagner: digging for gold and rejoicing when he finds earthworms.
I've spent the better part of my adult life searching the scriptures - not to make light of it, pick it apart or justify my own sins (which are many), but to be lifted up, comforted, and drawn closer to God.
I haven't been disappointed.
That is funny about Judas. Also funny how it's not even clear how he died. The circumstances surrounding Jesus' 'resurrection' are even less clear.
ReplyDeleteIf a poorly compiled ancient text makes you feel "closer" to your diety in the year 2009, that's your business. As long as you don't use your interpretations of it to support legal discrimination of other Americans, you can have a ball with it in your own life. I really don't care. Again, I am a former Christian, I know the apologetics and suffice it to say that I am no longer impressed by it.
Searching for the truth is not evil.
And anytime, Ted.