Many of today's customs used in the Church can be traced back to the 4th century, when Constantine began the process of converting the official Pagan religion of the Roman Empire to Christianity.
In his 1878 Essay on the Development of the Christian Doctrine John H. Newman wrote: "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holy days and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the east, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church." - John Newman was a Catholic prelate
BTW: Saturnalia is a Pagan holiday that starts on December 17 and ends on December 25 and at the beginning of spring, the Pagans would celebrate life buy coloring eggs, because eggs meant the start of a new life and a new season.
ROFL---gee, you don't think the problem is that the same could happen in reverse now?
And David? I think "armies" was meant as metaphor for the missionaries who spread across Europe from Rome, eventually yes, forcing conversions as necessary.
And armies aint no metaphor. The armies marched and the the religious AHole preachers where right there with them. And when the preacher said jesus! You can bet everyone jumped to it or got chopped by the military. And when they marched on America the same thing was done. The xtian just did steal any of their religions except for peyote and tobacco.
Rumour has it that this is the birthday of a man who suggested that peace and goodwill to all men was quite a good idea, therefore I will heed his suggestion and *refrain* from telling L.Long that he is talking through a horse's rear end!
Instead, I will thank the duet(?) of Syrbal/Labrys for a more sensible explanation. I would go further and ask them to consider *why* that message spread with, given the communications difficulties, with such incredible speed and in fact how little 'military' persuasion was needed? Could it be that the message, relayed before the churches became too organised, rather appealed?
Gr'ama is entirely right to suggest that Christianity absorbed much of the existing social and religious fabric and wove it into its own system.
I have a book here, called 'The History of Christian Thought' by Jonathan Hill which made me so cross I couldn't finish it! Within a generation of that relatively simple and easy to understand message being spread those bloody intellectuals starting picking and poking at it and - natch! - falling out with each other over the equivalent of the number of angels on a pin head! Poor old Jesus! All I can say is 'E' for Effort, mate, but this lot really don't deserve you!
1. Nobody knows when Jesus' birthday was (if he was even a real person), but it is unlikely it was in winter (since shepherd's were tending their flocks in the fields). The solstice season was chosen simply because the church couldn't get people from celebrating at that time. 2. Christianity was spread by the sword, as well as an army of priests -- starting with the Romans, and continuing to this day. And it is not debatable as to how much "military" persuasion was needed, because in most places, in Europe and others, a lot of military persuasion was used. 3. As to how fast it spread, it took a thousand years to cover all of Europe. In addition, other religions also spread very quickly -- with islam spreading even quicker than christianity. 4. Did the message appeal? It did to some, and to others accepting it was a matter of survival (remember the Spanish Inquisition). 5. I don't appreciate your name-calling of other commenters.
ANONYMOUS COMMENTS WILL NOT BE PUBLISHED. And neither will racist,homophobic, or misogynistic comments. I do not mind if you disagree, but make your case in a decent manner.
"When Christian armies invade Europe" - eh? What? Who? When?
ReplyDeleteMany of today's customs used in the Church can be traced back to the 4th century, when Constantine began the process of converting the official Pagan religion of the Roman Empire to Christianity.
ReplyDeleteIn his 1878 Essay on the Development of the Christian Doctrine John H. Newman wrote: "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holy days and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the east, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church." - John Newman was a Catholic prelate
BTW: Saturnalia is a Pagan holiday that starts on December 17 and ends on December 25 and at the beginning of spring, the Pagans would celebrate life buy coloring eggs, because eggs meant the start of a new life and a new season.
ROFL---gee, you don't think the problem is that the same could happen in reverse now?
ReplyDeleteAnd David? I think "armies" was meant as metaphor for the missionaries who spread across Europe from Rome, eventually yes, forcing conversions as necessary.
And armies aint no metaphor. The armies marched and the the religious AHole preachers where right there with them. And when the preacher said jesus! You can bet everyone jumped to it or got chopped by the military. And when they marched on America the same thing was done. The xtian just did steal any of their religions except for peyote and tobacco.
ReplyDeleteRumour has it that this is the birthday of a man who suggested that peace and goodwill to all men was quite a good idea, therefore I will heed his suggestion and *refrain* from telling L.Long that he is talking through a horse's rear end!
ReplyDeleteInstead, I will thank the duet(?) of Syrbal/Labrys for a more sensible explanation. I would go further and ask them to consider *why* that message spread with, given the communications difficulties, with such incredible speed and in fact how little 'military' persuasion was needed? Could it be that the message, relayed before the churches became too organised, rather appealed?
Gr'ama is entirely right to suggest that Christianity absorbed much of the existing social and religious fabric and wove it into its own system.
I have a book here, called 'The History of Christian Thought' by Jonathan Hill which made me so cross I couldn't finish it! Within a generation of that relatively simple and easy to understand message being spread those bloody intellectuals starting picking and poking at it and - natch! - falling out with each other over the equivalent of the number of angels on a pin head! Poor old Jesus! All I can say is 'E' for Effort, mate, but this lot really don't deserve you!
Oh, by the way, er, Happy Christmas!
1. Nobody knows when Jesus' birthday was (if he was even a real person), but it is unlikely it was in winter (since shepherd's were tending their flocks in the fields). The solstice season was chosen simply because the church couldn't get people from celebrating at that time.
ReplyDelete2. Christianity was spread by the sword, as well as an army of priests -- starting with the Romans, and continuing to this day. And it is not debatable as to how much "military" persuasion was needed, because in most places, in Europe and others, a lot of military persuasion was used.
3. As to how fast it spread, it took a thousand years to cover all of Europe. In addition, other religions also spread very quickly -- with islam spreading even quicker than christianity.
4. Did the message appeal? It did to some, and to others accepting it was a matter of survival (remember the Spanish Inquisition).
5. I don't appreciate your name-calling of other commenters.